Do you think, then, that new writers especially would have better luck if they just mailed their query to an editor directly rather than go through an agent?

I, too, attended Dean’s novel workshop in Feb. and I can also add my own data point to this.

So far I have submitted 5 query packages, only one of which to an editor at a house that accepts unsolicited submissions.

I’ve heard nothing yet on four of those (including the publisher with the ‘open’ submissions policy).

The editor I have heard back from? Requested the full manuscript. This is a major house that states very clearly in their guidelines that they don’t take e-queries and they never read un-agented submissions. Yeah, I sent my un-agented query via email. *grin*

Nathan, thanks so much for the update on your progress. Tremendously exciting stuff, and a testament to what effort and thinking outside the box can get you.

Dean, I wanted to add some data points, regarding agented submissions and the supposed “wall” that exists between editors and writers without agents.

Of the 9 markets who got my initial package distribution, 5 have gotten back to me as of today.

The first market responded via e-mail within 72 hours of the package having left my hands, in spite of the web site’s explicit statements that paper subs were verboten and that all unsolicited MS had to go through a certain generic slush e-mail, etc, etc. The personalized e-mail I got — from the chief editor — said send him the electronic version of the paper package, so he could send to the genre editor whom he wanted to see the book.

The second market sent me a standard form rejection wherein the text stated explicitly that the house did NOT accept or read unsolicited, unagented fiction. Penned in the margin at the bottom of the form rejection is a personal note from the editor, who stated, “Brad — I think you are a strong writer. Regrettably, this isn’t the kind of book we’re looking for our list at the moment. Best of luck finding the right home for this project!”

Note to the crowd: the editor seems to have read the package, enough to take time out of his work day to pen me a personal note which says nothing about me needing an agent or anything else beyond, the project isn’t right for the house at this time. Oh, and I am a, “strong writer.” The editor’s name is on the letter. Not the editor I originally mailed the MS to, but now I have a personal ‘line’ open to this editor — who read my package and seems to feel it was worth at least a note — and now I can send my next novel package to him with a cover letter stating, “Dear editor, thanks for your personal comments on my last package. Please have a look at this project and see if it better suits your needs.” So far as I am concerned, that un-agented package was a win.

The third market also has a web site explicitly stating that paper subs are verboten, yet I got a personalized paper rejection. No complaints about me not following the web site guidelines. No word about me having to have an agent either. Just regrets that the project doesn’t work for them at this time, best wishes, send us more, yadda yadda.

The fourth market has recently been absorbed into a still larger market. The web site makes no mention whatsoever of current guidelines, but I got a personalized paper rejection from an editor with a name. As with the second market, I now have a ‘line’ to that editor which I can trace back with my next package for the next project. No agent required.

The fifth market, which explicitly states that they do take un-agented, unsolicited paper subs, was the only one to send me a bona fide badly-photocopied form rejection without personalized comments, though there is an editor’s name, so I might be able to technically claim a ‘line’ on that editor now, too.

So, out of the 5 responses received so far, 4 of them were a) personalized comments from editors at houses which b) either explicitly stated no unagented, unsolicited MS or at least demanded electronic MS mailed to a generic slush e-mail box. Nobody YELLED AT ME IN ALL CAPS telling me I am a cretin for ignoring guidelines or the “rules” about unagented, unsolicited MS. In fact, the one editor who took the most time to pen a response did so on a piece of paper making it plain that nobody at his house would spend any time on anything unagented or unsolicited.

=^)

Only one agency I am aware of even tried what you are suggesting and that’s Richard Curtis, one of the best salesmen in the business. (Not recommending him, just saying.) He’s been around a long time and made it a point to stay ahead of trends and when he saw this electronic wave coming, he contacted all of his clients and rounded up their rights for those who would let him do it, and started his own company with actual editors (John Douglas works for him, as well as others) and they do a model much like Fictionwise, where they take a novel and get it up on all the electronic outlets and then take a percentage. In other words, Richard Curtis, as an agent, started his own publishing company for his clients and it’s still going on.

Now, in my mind, just as with Fictionwise, there’s a problem with this model that I don’t much like. Smashwords is also going to the same model.

The model works like this. Say you gave Richard’s company your novel to put up. You get a percentage (not sure what it is, but a percentage) of everything that comes in. Richard’s company formats it and does the cover and gives it to Fictionwise, who takes a percentage of what comes in to them. Fictionwise puts it up on Kindle or some such thing and Kindle takes a percentage.

Let me back up and do some numbers. You (the author) do a few hours work and put up a novel for $3.00 on Kindle yourself. One copy sells, you get 70% (after July 1) of that $3.00. So your income is $2.10. (About the same as selling a $25.00 hardback through a New York publisher.)

But give that same novel to Fictionwise or Smashwords and Fictionwise/Smashwords gets $2.10 from Kindle and you still have to do some of the work. And then you get a percentage of the $2.10. Say something just over a buck. (not sure of exact number, haven’t looked lately)

Now give it to Richard’s company. You do none of the work, sure, but they put your novel onto Fictionwise, which then puts it on Kindle, and you get a percentage of a percentage of a percentage. You will be getting a very tiny amount by the time the money reaches you. Pennies, actually. So to make any real money, you have to sell a lot of copies in that model.

Writers like Konrath and many others, including me and Kris slowly over this year, are doing our own covers and putting stuff up on our own instead of going through one of these “agencies” like Smashwords or Fictionwise. Yes, I said it, they are agencies, sort of publishers, sort of a new animal. They take a percentage. They take less of a percentage if they sell it directly from their own site. And they do that. But a lot of their income is access to other platforms. And you pay for that access.

Not saying they are bad. Just saying that if you do start down this road, understand once again that by putting something up on Fictionwise or Smashwords, they are not only a platform for sales, but an agent and a form of publisher and they take their percentages. The key in business is always to try to keep most of the money yourself. But don’t be so worried about that to the point that you make no money at all. Balance. Understanding. Balance.

Wild new world we are in at the moment. And wait a week, it will change yet again.

So in my belief, that model will work, but only for writers who can’t be bothered to learn a few basics like how to put a book up on Kindle or Smashwords or Scribd themselves.

Got a letter last night from a writer excited that he had just been offered a four book deal. And he said, I quote, “I followed what you said exactly, no agent involved, and it works.” He was writing for my advice on finding someone to help him with the contract and negotiations.

Yup, it works over and over and over. Thanks, Nathan.

I then cold queried an editor. Didn’t know I couldn’t. They said give me a sample & synopsis. I did. They gave me a 1-book deal and I’d sink or swim on that book. I got 2-4 book contracts over and over for the next 5 or so years.

I then studied all the myths. I became very educated in the myths. So I sent one more cold query out and spent 5 years hunting an agent. Didn’t matter that I’d already sold a book (and eventually 16 or 17) by breaking the myths–it was tie-in work so it must be SO VASTLY different than real writing. I had the mind set of an ass clown.

No agents or lazy agents was all the reply I got. But 2 years after I sent the cold YA query I got an invitation to audition. Sent a Sample & Synopsis and I got a 1-book shot. Book comes out in Sept. so we’ll see if this gets good run.

HAD to have an agent, dontcha know. Much easier to get an agent with a contact. Agent did squat. I lost 15% of the advance and all future royalties for a net gain of = -15%.

I met Dean. In all occupations without formalized training the mentorship model is just about the only way to gain knowledge.

I threw out all my Myths. Then I pissed on ‘em. Then I worked on queries and pitches and samples, oh my.

In that time I’ve cold queried every single house out there either major or with imprints in my area( and to multiple editors in those imprints & houses). 20% didn’t answer. 1 told me they needed agented only subs–after he read my pitch & sample thoroughly .i.e. I didn’t need an agent I need a better or more targeted sample & synopsis.

I’ve sold a trilogy. I’ve sold a single. I’ve become a serial story author for a small but pro press doing anthos. All since January of this year. I am a working writer at mid-list money. Nothing to brag about in spectrum of things–unless your dream is to write as a living without a day job, in which case I’m here to tell you it’s nice.

I’ve learned an insane amount about numbers, contracts, royalty structures, print runs, foriegn rights–simply by reading. I’m now a better agent than the agent I had. It really isn’t brain surgery people.

Would I work with a great agent given a chance? Of course. Some agents have gravitas, some can sell Antabuse at a frat kegger, some are OCD super IP legal whizes or foriegn rights machines.

An *ungodly* number aren’t any of these things. And some of the most famous are shady as hell under that shinny exterior.

If you find a good agent life is good. If you find a typical agent you’re losing 15% you could keep. If you find a bad agent you are so screwed it’s a shame.

If you’re starting out on your career it’s an expedition. Hopefully it’ll be a long one. Here’s my advice: listen to people who’ve survived in the wilderness for a long, long time. Don’t dismiss the wisdom of experience because you think the wilderness is different for *you* or your generation.

Under the bells & whistles its really, really, really not.

And for god’s sake people if you disagree with Dean fine. Ignorant natives clinging to ju-ju beads help me out–but make sure you read what he’s writing. The Strawman arguments cropping up in this thread as insane.

He didn’t say agents NEVER work. He didn’t say you should NEVER use an agent. He said the current system is broken and doing harm. He also said you can sell without an agent. These are specific things.

You’d think writers would be better readers.

There’s a common scam practice (wraned about often on watchdog sites like Writer Beware, for example) where the “agent” tells a client, “This book needs editorial work before it can be sent out. Let me recommend a good freelance editor to you,” and then sends the client to someone whose “editing” will be fiscally profitable for the agent. The “editor” may be a spouse or family member, for example; or it may be a friend/associate who pays a fee to the agent for sending business there. This is a con, and it’s a fairly common way of preying on desperate aspiring writers who don’t know enough about the business to be aware that this is an unethical practice.

Well, there is a (formerly) legitimate and (previously) repitable New York literary agent who for years had a well-known reputation of having clients rewrite and rewrite and rewrite and rewrite… and then not sending the book out anyhow. (I am personally acquainted with at least half a dozen writers who’d sold books before hiring this agent; who couldn’t even get a book into submission the whole time they were clients of this agent; and who had to–and, indeed, DID–ressurect their careers after leaving the agent.) For years I wondered how the agent could be making a living, given how often I heard this exact same story from multiple clients and former clients. I also wondered how much income it cost the agent (since, in most cases, the writers I know who left then sold those books which the agent had been unwilling to send out).

Well… I recently learned (and have since heard it confirmed multiple times) that this agent is now engaging in the traditional scam practice of telling clients that the MS needs freelance editing… and then recommending “freelance editors” with whom the agent has either a marital relatioship or with whom the agent is in a separate business venture.

Apart from being the sign of unethical behavior in someone I had previously considered honest if prone to bad judgment, so I was very sad to hear about this… I think it’s also a sign of the times. Someone engaging in such all-too-common counter-productive practices (such as requesting constant rewrites… and then NOT EVEN SELLING the book)… IS feeling squeezed into finding other sources of revenue. Such as scamming clients now.

All I can say by way of consolation is that your story is very very common. You shouldn’t feel alone with it, and you shouldn’t feel it’s “just you.” Unfortunately, the sort of experiences you’re describing are much, MUCH TOO common. It’s just that most people don’t talk publicly about them.

And it’s one minor but typical example of a question posed several times above about what prompts the claim that the agent business model is headed for collapse. In a market that has become so tight and so challenging, how long do you think someone with such counter-productive practices that don’t generate income can last? In the past year, we’ve already seen at least two agencies shut down (both were newer agencies) and a number of other agents (such as the agent of a pal of mine) leave the business. Things will get harder (because this is publishing, and things really only go in one direction in this industry: harder), and we will see more agents and agencies falling by the wayside.

The market itself is creating a form of Darwinism in which agents with bad business judgment and unproductive practices (and, as discussed often and at length throughough the Killing Cows series, a substantial percentage of agents aren’t partciularly good at business) that don’t generate income will continue disappearing from the profession, increasingly unable to make enough money to pay their bills. First their professinal bills (so writers should certainly keep a close eye on THEIR money which is flowing through those agencies); then their personal bills, which is when even the dimmest bulb is likely to realize it’s time to find another profession.

The big picture is that agenting is a practice inextricably linked to big publishing. The vast majority of agents have long declined (and still decline) to deal with small presses, declaring the income not worth their time. Yet small presses are where quite a few writers have been going in the past decade, due to changes in major publishing.

Agents have chosen to take no part in the electronic revolution. When Kindle came onto the market, it was writers, NOT agents, who trailblazed that territory. I kept watching, thinking that SURELY at least ONE agency in the industry would be smart enough to negotiate an agency boilerplate deal with Kindle, gather up the available e-rights of all its clients (which, at any major agency, would amount to hundreds–possibly thousands–of books; and even at small agency, probably about a hundred books); organize a system of e-conversion (at a break-even or modestly profitable fee) for clients who couldn’t do it themselves, get those dozens or hundreds (or thousands) of books into this brand new market, and earn the commission on all those sales. It seemed SUCH an obvious business decision, I remained flabbergasted for over a year as agents continued NOT doing it.

And now that ship has sailed. Writers have found this lucrative new market for their work WITHOUT agents, and we see frank discussions all over the place about how much money their electronic experiements are generating. (Check out Joe Konrath’s blog; an early trailblazer, now he’s just one more example of the many writers making money hand-over-fist with electronic formats they pursued ON THEIR OWN while their own agents stood by idly and did nothing. This is by now a common story in the industry.)

Predictions are increasingly that a substantial portion of writers earnings are going to switch over to this business model–a business model that their own agents have, through sheer inertia, OPTED OUT of participating in. At this point, just how much of a helpless doormat would a writer have to be if NOW his/her agent insists on elbowing into that source of income and demanding 15% of it? Who but the most timid, meek, or (to be blunt) idiotic writer would go long with that NOW? That ship has sailed. Literary agents will not be part of a portion of the new publishing economy where their -clients- (as well as writers whom they’ve declined to represent) are making real money.

MEANWHILE… New York publishing is changing. I don’t believe it’s going to disappear. But book sales are down, the revenue generated by major publishing is down, and book advances are going down. I and most of my friends are being pressured to write faster than we used to, because the market has become so much more competitive. It’s possible that, in NY publishing, none of us will ever make the advances that writers in our exact positions made 5+ (let alone 10-20-30) years ago. (For example, because of lowered print runs and sales, someone can now make the NYT paperback list on the basis of an advance that’s under $50K and a print run under 100K. When I got into the business, both the print run (and, in proportion to that, the advance) would have to be a lot higher for the writer to have a shot at The List.)

That’s not all doom and gloom, because we ALSO have access to alternate streams of income (which Dean has discussed often on this blog) that we (or people in our current positins) did not have 5-10-20-30 years ago. So as writers, we’ll manage.

But… since AGENTS have, primarily through inertia and absence of vision, opted out of those alternative income streams… will THEY manage in a market where the traditional way of making a living in publishing is going to be generated less income than it used, and generating it (probably) for fewer people?

SOME will manage. But some of them won’t. In all the discussion I see online accusing major houses of being dinosaurs who are doomed because of their slow adjustment to the new market… what I DON’T see is what strikes me as the far ore obvious dinosaur, and the one whose future strikes me as much more precarious: the literary agent.

Agents have mostly ignored and largely opted out of the two fastest growing sectors of the new publishing market (small press and electronic venues) while the market they focus on (major NY publishing) is becoming far more competitive and, for many people, less lucrative.

There will continue to be major houses and mega-authors IMO, as well as healthy sales for highly commercial authors whose work is well-published. But I believe there’s not going to be enough for all the agents who currently want a piece of that pie; so we’ll see more of them failing and leaving the industry. And I think the trend will start with those for whom NOT getting involved in small and electronic markets when they could have will prove to be the crucial fiscal mistake from which they can’t recover.

My food for thought, anyhow.

Heteromeles: This is still no excuse for anonymity. If they’re employers prohibit blogging, then as employees who’ve accepted terms of employment with that company, their obligation is either NOT to blog, or else to negotiate terms under which the company will accept that they DO blog. Not to violate the terms of employment by blogging but hiding their names. ESPECIALLY not when the -point- of their blogs is that their supposed expertise based on their supposed professional positions!

In 2006, I was sent on a fellowship to work at a major news bureau in Jerusalem. I was posting essays about my experiences there on my website. After seeing the first or second one, the bureau chief called me in and set down guidelines for me. (Having worked freelance for years, it foolishly hadn’t occurred to me to discuss this with what was now, in effect, my employer. Fortunately, they raised the subject early and fairly with me, so nothing got out of hand.) They didn’t want me talking about anything that occurred within the news room, about them, or about my experiences when I was specifically on assignment (though I could, for example, recount my adventures of trying to get TO and FROM an assigninment on public transport in the desert, which I did).

Fair enough. I continued posting public essays about my experiences there (under my real name), but I abided by the ground rules we had discussed together as reasonable adults–in a volatile climate (Jerusalem) where they were in a public and precarious position (as a major news bureau writing daily about the situation there, including articles with my name on them), and where I was privvy to a lot of confidential information. Were there things I wish I could have talked about in my essays? You betcha. But I didn’t. Because we had negotiated and established ground rules about what was appropriate for me to write about independently on my own site with specific regard to my employment at/by the bureau.

By contrasting, posting =anonymously= for the express purpose of violating the terms of my position would have just been sleazy.

And if they had told me they didn’t want me writing publicly AT ALL on my own website about my experienes in Jerusalem? Well, we’d have had to negotiate further, since I was not willing to regard my personal life and down-time as coming under their provenance. However, that subject never arose between us. Their concern was that my work for them shouldn’t become fodder for my website. It was their right to stipulate that. And it was not my right to continue employment there while violating such a stipulation by sneakiness and anonymity.