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	<title>Comments on: Motivation #4</title>
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		<title>By: dwsmith</title>
		<link>http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639&#038;cpage=1#comment-716</link>
		<dc:creator>dwsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 22:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639#comment-716</guid>
		<description>Alastair,

Well said, and I like the clear explanation of how it works in our heads. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alastair,</p>
<p>Well said, and I like the clear explanation of how it works in our heads. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Alastair Mayer</title>
		<link>http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639&#038;cpage=1#comment-712</link>
		<dc:creator>Alastair Mayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 06:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639#comment-712</guid>
		<description>Coming into this discussion a couple of weeks late,  but perhaps I have some hint of why we&#039;re the worst judges of our own work.  We tend to judge it by comparing it against the idea in our head, other readers can only judge by what&#039;s on the paper.

The limitations of linear language mean that we&#039;ll never be able to get ideas onto paper exactly the way they are in our head, so that comparison is off to a bad start.  If, somehow, we get something on paper that we think is a pretty good match (and thus a really great piece of work), that either means the idea wasn&#039;t all that to start with or the words are triggering internal memories that won&#039;t match somebody else&#039;s.

Years ago my wife chaired a major space-related conference.  Afterwards she was convinced that it had been horrible,  things hadn&#039;t turned out as she&#039;d wanted, etc.  Everyone else thought it was fantastic.  Even though it didn&#039;t live up to the expectations she had in her head, it met or exceeded most everyone else&#039;s.  I think it&#039;s the same with writing (and probably many other undertakings).

There&#039;s a saying about better being the enemy of good enough.  There comes a time when one needs to stop tinkering with a project and declare it finished -- and the Pareto Principle (aka 80-20 rule) suggest that that point is sooner rather than later, especially when that tinkering is more likely to break it than improve it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming into this discussion a couple of weeks late,  but perhaps I have some hint of why we&#8217;re the worst judges of our own work.  We tend to judge it by comparing it against the idea in our head, other readers can only judge by what&#8217;s on the paper.</p>
<p>The limitations of linear language mean that we&#8217;ll never be able to get ideas onto paper exactly the way they are in our head, so that comparison is off to a bad start.  If, somehow, we get something on paper that we think is a pretty good match (and thus a really great piece of work), that either means the idea wasn&#8217;t all that to start with or the words are triggering internal memories that won&#8217;t match somebody else&#8217;s.</p>
<p>Years ago my wife chaired a major space-related conference.  Afterwards she was convinced that it had been horrible,  things hadn&#8217;t turned out as she&#8217;d wanted, etc.  Everyone else thought it was fantastic.  Even though it didn&#8217;t live up to the expectations she had in her head, it met or exceeded most everyone else&#8217;s.  I think it&#8217;s the same with writing (and probably many other undertakings).</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a saying about better being the enemy of good enough.  There comes a time when one needs to stop tinkering with a project and declare it finished &#8212; and the Pareto Principle (aka 80-20 rule) suggest that that point is sooner rather than later, especially when that tinkering is more likely to break it than improve it.</p>
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		<title>By: dwsmith</title>
		<link>http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639&#038;cpage=1#comment-620</link>
		<dc:creator>dwsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 20:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639#comment-620</guid>
		<description>Rob, you were very lucky to have studied with Mort. And the only reason he said ten years was because he hoped after ten years you would learned enough to understand you would never be able to judge your own work. But I do agree, I learned this lesson the first time in the 1970&#039;s and had to keep learning it over and over up to the mid 1990&#039;s where I finally gave up and just put stuff out. But every so often, to this day, when I am thinking &quot;Oh, this is a piece of crap&quot; I want to argue with Kris when she tells me it&#039;s good. And she does the same thing. In fact, last night she finished and handed me a new short story to read. I did, it was wonderful, so I said, &quot;It&#039;s great. Fix the two nits I found and mail it.&quot; She started arguing with me about how it couldn&#039;t work, how she had written it backwards she was sure, how something needed to be lengthened. I said the same thing I&#039;ve been saying here to her, something she has said many, many times to me or students. &quot;The quality of the final work has nothing to do with the writer&#039;s experience in writing it.&quot;

She glared at me, said, &quot;Shut up,&quot; and left. She fixed the two nits and it&#039;s already off to the editor. None of us ever get past this need to point a gun at our own work. But we can learn to not pull the trigger all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, you were very lucky to have studied with Mort. And the only reason he said ten years was because he hoped after ten years you would learned enough to understand you would never be able to judge your own work. But I do agree, I learned this lesson the first time in the 1970&#8217;s and had to keep learning it over and over up to the mid 1990&#8217;s where I finally gave up and just put stuff out. But every so often, to this day, when I am thinking &#8220;Oh, this is a piece of crap&#8221; I want to argue with Kris when she tells me it&#8217;s good. And she does the same thing. In fact, last night she finished and handed me a new short story to read. I did, it was wonderful, so I said, &#8220;It&#8217;s great. Fix the two nits I found and mail it.&#8221; She started arguing with me about how it couldn&#8217;t work, how she had written it backwards she was sure, how something needed to be lengthened. I said the same thing I&#8217;ve been saying here to her, something she has said many, many times to me or students. &#8220;The quality of the final work has nothing to do with the writer&#8217;s experience in writing it.&#8221;</p>
<p>She glared at me, said, &#8220;Shut up,&#8221; and left. She fixed the two nits and it&#8217;s already off to the editor. None of us ever get past this need to point a gun at our own work. But we can learn to not pull the trigger all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639&#038;cpage=1#comment-619</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 19:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639#comment-619</guid>
		<description>This is really funny. I have long suspected the truth behind the schism between how good I think my writing is vs. its actual worth. In fact, I received a BA in Fiction Writing from Columbia College in Chicago where I had the opportunity to study with the great Mort Castle. He would constantly contradict my own judgments of my work. I lost count of the times I would turn something in saying, &quot;This really sucks. It&#039;s awfully rough.&quot; And he would turn around and tell me how well it worked, lavish me with praise, then tell me I was simply not allowed to judge my own work until I&#039;d been at it for longer than 10 years.

Mort Castle is awesome, talented, and a legend. I was lucky to study under him. Obviously, any writer would be wise to listen to his advice. And yet...I still sabotage myself with my own bad judgment. It&#039;s a hard habit to kick.

Even after all the evidence to the contrary. It wasn&#039;t just Mort&#039;s class. Almost every damn time I dashed off a writing assignment just to GET-IT-DONE, that was the piece my instructors felt worked best. Then I&#039;d turn in something with the smug expectation of florid praise, and get a long list of suggestions for improvement.

I wasn&#039;t going to do any New Year&#039;s Resolutions, but after stumbling onto this site, I think it&#039;s high time I changed the way I look at my writing process. And I think all those manuscripts sitting on my hard drive collecting virtual dust need to get sent out.

Thanks for the great advice. You very well may have saved my writing life.

Best,
Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is really funny. I have long suspected the truth behind the schism between how good I think my writing is vs. its actual worth. In fact, I received a BA in Fiction Writing from Columbia College in Chicago where I had the opportunity to study with the great Mort Castle. He would constantly contradict my own judgments of my work. I lost count of the times I would turn something in saying, &#8220;This really sucks. It&#8217;s awfully rough.&#8221; And he would turn around and tell me how well it worked, lavish me with praise, then tell me I was simply not allowed to judge my own work until I&#8217;d been at it for longer than 10 years.</p>
<p>Mort Castle is awesome, talented, and a legend. I was lucky to study under him. Obviously, any writer would be wise to listen to his advice. And yet&#8230;I still sabotage myself with my own bad judgment. It&#8217;s a hard habit to kick.</p>
<p>Even after all the evidence to the contrary. It wasn&#8217;t just Mort&#8217;s class. Almost every damn time I dashed off a writing assignment just to GET-IT-DONE, that was the piece my instructors felt worked best. Then I&#8217;d turn in something with the smug expectation of florid praise, and get a long list of suggestions for improvement.</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t going to do any New Year&#8217;s Resolutions, but after stumbling onto this site, I think it&#8217;s high time I changed the way I look at my writing process. And I think all those manuscripts sitting on my hard drive collecting virtual dust need to get sent out.</p>
<p>Thanks for the great advice. You very well may have saved my writing life.</p>
<p>Best,<br />
Rob</p>
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		<title>By: mbaesq</title>
		<link>http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639&#038;cpage=1#comment-566</link>
		<dc:creator>mbaesq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639#comment-566</guid>
		<description>Speaking of putting things on a wall...

&quot;Stick that on a sign over your computer right along with “Dare to be Bad”.&quot;

Just had to say that in our Master Class workshop, I put a sign up over my laptop based on something similar that Kris had said that morning.  The sign read: &quot;You are free to write something that sucks!&quot;

Reason being, it was a way to remind myself to take risks and write the best damned story I could - and not worry if anyone was gonna like it.

Sure enough, I ended up doing some of my best stuff, and it&#039;s moved my craft yet another step ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of putting things on a wall&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Stick that on a sign over your computer right along with “Dare to be Bad”.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just had to say that in our Master Class workshop, I put a sign up over my laptop based on something similar that Kris had said that morning.  The sign read: &#8220;You are free to write something that sucks!&#8221;</p>
<p>Reason being, it was a way to remind myself to take risks and write the best damned story I could &#8211; and not worry if anyone was gonna like it.</p>
<p>Sure enough, I ended up doing some of my best stuff, and it&#8217;s moved my craft yet another step ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: dwsmith</title>
		<link>http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639&#038;cpage=1#comment-560</link>
		<dc:creator>dwsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639#comment-560</guid>
		<description>And thus, Brad, you have an exact example of what I have been saying, but still fantastically hard to fight the myths and stay with a method that worked for you, isn&#039;t it.  The myths run deep.

Remember, the writer&#039;s experience at writing the story has nothing at all to do with the quality of the story.  Put that on your wall.

Cheers
Dean</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And thus, Brad, you have an exact example of what I have been saying, but still fantastically hard to fight the myths and stay with a method that worked for you, isn&#8217;t it.  The myths run deep.</p>
<p>Remember, the writer&#8217;s experience at writing the story has nothing at all to do with the quality of the story.  Put that on your wall.</p>
<p>Cheers<br />
Dean</p>
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		<title>By: Brad R. Torgersen</title>
		<link>http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639&#038;cpage=1#comment-557</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad R. Torgersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639#comment-557</guid>
		<description>Errr, I am sorry, that last part didn&#039;t make much sense.  Forgive me, I am up waaaaaaaay too early on a Sunday.

The win at WOTF sealed it for me, &lt;em&gt;both&lt;/em&gt; in terms of me not being a good judge of my own quality &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; re-writing.

I did very little re-writing on that story, and it didn&#039;t go through a critique process either.  I was rushed to meet the deadline, and afraid I&#039;d been &quot;lazy&quot; with the story as a result.

In resignation, I said, &quot;Oh well, I don&#039;t like it, but this is as good as I can possibly make this story right now,&quot; spellchecked, gave it a quick grammar proof, and dropped it in the mail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Errr, I am sorry, that last part didn&#8217;t make much sense.  Forgive me, I am up waaaaaaaay too early on a Sunday.</p>
<p>The win at WOTF sealed it for me, <em>both</em> in terms of me not being a good judge of my own quality <em>and</em> re-writing.</p>
<p>I did very little re-writing on that story, and it didn&#8217;t go through a critique process either.  I was rushed to meet the deadline, and afraid I&#8217;d been &#8220;lazy&#8221; with the story as a result.</p>
<p>In resignation, I said, &#8220;Oh well, I don&#8217;t like it, but this is as good as I can possibly make this story right now,&#8221; spellchecked, gave it a quick grammar proof, and dropped it in the mail.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad R. Torgersen</title>
		<link>http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639&#038;cpage=1#comment-556</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad R. Torgersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639#comment-556</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I really need to stay away from writing forums. -- Amanda&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Y&#039;know, I am starting to agree with Amanda on this.  Seems to me there is a great deal of bad advice and &quot;myth,&quot; as Dean calls it, floating through the aspirant community.  Especially on-line.  Anyone who comes along and won&#039;t imbibe the myth, tends to get thwapped by the group.  Or at the very least, people all look up from the table as if they heard a very strange noise, or something, grumble, and go back to doing precisely what it was they were doing before.

The necessity -- nay, the commandment -- of re-writing is probably the biggest myth out there right now.  About as big as the myth that nobody -- nobody! -- ever sells a first novel anymore without getting an agent first.  These beliefs are iron-clad gospel in the aspirant community.

I certainly bought into the gospel a few years ago.

I&#039;m slowly failing from grace, as it were.

The win at WOTF sealed it, at least as far as re-writing goes.  I was so sure that story was destined for an HM, no more.  I told my wife over and over, &quot;Nah, this story isn&#039;t doing anything, I am hoping the next one scores.&quot;  &lt;em&gt;Voila.&lt;/em&gt;  The story I thought wasn&#039;t going to go the distance, went the distance.

I promptly re-read the thing and wondered why a story I myself wasn&#039;t too sure of, had apparently been enough of a hit with K.D. and eventually people like Kevin Anderson and Jerry Pournelle, to Place with the Contest.  I still can&#039;t figure it out.  It&#039;s not a bad story, but I think I have done better.  But the ones I think I&#039;ve done better, haven&#039;t sold, and don&#039;t sell.

(shrug)

Gotta hand it to you, Dean, this is some mean-wicked heresy you and Kris are putting out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I really need to stay away from writing forums. &#8212; Amanda</p></blockquote>
<p>Y&#8217;know, I am starting to agree with Amanda on this.  Seems to me there is a great deal of bad advice and &#8220;myth,&#8221; as Dean calls it, floating through the aspirant community.  Especially on-line.  Anyone who comes along and won&#8217;t imbibe the myth, tends to get thwapped by the group.  Or at the very least, people all look up from the table as if they heard a very strange noise, or something, grumble, and go back to doing precisely what it was they were doing before.</p>
<p>The necessity &#8212; nay, the commandment &#8212; of re-writing is probably the biggest myth out there right now.  About as big as the myth that nobody &#8212; nobody! &#8212; ever sells a first novel anymore without getting an agent first.  These beliefs are iron-clad gospel in the aspirant community.</p>
<p>I certainly bought into the gospel a few years ago.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m slowly failing from grace, as it were.</p>
<p>The win at WOTF sealed it, at least as far as re-writing goes.  I was so sure that story was destined for an HM, no more.  I told my wife over and over, &#8220;Nah, this story isn&#8217;t doing anything, I am hoping the next one scores.&#8221;  <em>Voila.</em>  The story I thought wasn&#8217;t going to go the distance, went the distance.</p>
<p>I promptly re-read the thing and wondered why a story I myself wasn&#8217;t too sure of, had apparently been enough of a hit with K.D. and eventually people like Kevin Anderson and Jerry Pournelle, to Place with the Contest.  I still can&#8217;t figure it out.  It&#8217;s not a bad story, but I think I have done better.  But the ones I think I&#8217;ve done better, haven&#8217;t sold, and don&#8217;t sell.</p>
<p>(shrug)</p>
<p>Gotta hand it to you, Dean, this is some mean-wicked heresy you and Kris are putting out there.</p>
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		<title>By: dwsmith</title>
		<link>http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639&#038;cpage=1#comment-555</link>
		<dc:creator>dwsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639#comment-555</guid>
		<description>The number one mistake that any writer can make is show anyone else, ever, a work in progress. Then it becomes a group project and will mostly suck. Trust your own voice, your own vision, your own style, always. Never show work in progress.

Cheers
Dean</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The number one mistake that any writer can make is show anyone else, ever, a work in progress. Then it becomes a group project and will mostly suck. Trust your own voice, your own vision, your own style, always. Never show work in progress.</p>
<p>Cheers<br />
Dean</p>
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		<title>By: G D Townshende</title>
		<link>http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639&#038;cpage=1#comment-554</link>
		<dc:creator>G D Townshende</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=639#comment-554</guid>
		<description>I gave up on writing forums a few years back. I found that I spent too much time at forums, too much time reading, rereading, editing my posts, reading other&#039;s posts, and not enough time writing.

I&#039;d post small excerpts from stories I was writing, usually the openings, get some positive feedback, then lose interest in what I was writing.  Sure, I could use some feedback, I&#039;m positive, but at the expense of losing interest in something I was writing? No. Not worth it.

It was a great forum, too. FictionAddiction it was called. For whatever reason, Apryl decided to close the forum down. Great people — I still stay in touch with a number of them via email or Facebook — but I get the feeling that a great many of them are no longer writing, while my own productivity has picked up greatly since I stopped visiting forums.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gave up on writing forums a few years back. I found that I spent too much time at forums, too much time reading, rereading, editing my posts, reading other&#8217;s posts, and not enough time writing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d post small excerpts from stories I was writing, usually the openings, get some positive feedback, then lose interest in what I was writing.  Sure, I could use some feedback, I&#8217;m positive, but at the expense of losing interest in something I was writing? No. Not worth it.</p>
<p>It was a great forum, too. FictionAddiction it was called. For whatever reason, Apryl decided to close the forum down. Great people — I still stay in touch with a number of them via email or Facebook — but I get the feeling that a great many of them are no longer writing, while my own productivity has picked up greatly since I stopped visiting forums.</p>
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