Okay, time to talk about agents and their future in this changing world.
But first folks, read this!!
http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2011/the-agents-role-in-todays-digital-book-world/
Mary Kole, who I do not know, and who seems fairly smart, works at Andrea Brown Literary Agency. On the Digital Book World site, she talked about her opinions of what the agent’s role will be going into the future.
I read it and shuddered, to be honest. Then I went back and actually tried to figure out why I had such an adverse reaction to some very logical thoughts by this agent.
Agent Mary Kole argues that agents will become packagers, doing “editorial work, marketing consultation, design, etc.” She thinks that agents will have a “more active hand in … reaching market-ready status.”
Okay, let me simply say for me, NO!! But that is only for me and as I have pounded home over and over, every writer is different. But that said, I have no respect for the writers who want to be taken care of by agents, who let total strangers take over all their money and their careers and let total strangers stop them from writing what they want to write. I have made that clear.
Yet 95% of the writers coming in today want someone to take care of them. And what this agent is talking about is a direct extension of that. Direct. So from her point of view, agents taking care of writers even more makes sense. (I shuddered, but many will not because they will look at that and say, “Oh, good, I don’t have to learn anything or work.”)
Then this agent goes on to get opinions from other agents on this topic. One other agent, Nathan Bransford, sees agents becoming two types, one with bestsellers and one with no bestsellers. (I see a third, the scam agents, but we won’t go into that here.) He says the lower-level agents will act as “managers, consultants, and publicists to help their clients navigate small presses and self-publishing.”
What he didn’t say, of course, is that the agents will also take 15% or more of that. Often much more, but I’ll get to that in a moment.
And that has already started. For example, Richard Curtis has a company already publishing and packaging his clients backlist and taking a ton more than 15%. So, of course the writers who want someone to take care of them will flock to those types and give away vast sums of money for almost no work. (Sort of like what’s happening in today’s world with agents. I often gave my agent thousands of dollars for making one phone call and then having her accounting department forward checks.)
Bransford goes on to say that it’s going to be hard for agents to make money unless one of their clients take off, meaning becomes a bestseller. (Yup, the agency model is failing for anyone but the top agents with the top bestselling writers. We can all see that. Duh.) Brandsford thinks the small agents will have to invent new ways to “earn their keep.” (Again, duh.)
Then Mary Kole really made me shudder when she said agents should treat every new client as a tech start-up. She thinks that writers are going to have “start-up” costs, and she thinks agents will need to learn how to do all the technology and understand it, and explore what makes a good app. And that agents should “develop new properties,” and that “the review-sharing model for the agent/client relationship might also change…” And then she gave me a real kick in the stomach when she said, …”especially for properties developed mutually.”
She thinks that writers and agents will be collaborators. (Or, as she said earlier, agent as packager.)
Okay, now I admit that over the last two years I have really gotten jaded about agents and their position in publishing. And I’ve gotten flat angry at stupid writers letting the agents take over. But what this very smart woman is talking about is logical and clear and well-thought out from the point of view of an agent.
She is talking about how agents are going to dig themselves into this new world of writers, even though honestly from my opinion, they are not needed at all. She is writing an article about how agents are going to take our work, writer’s work, and make it their work and collaborate and “help” writers get it up on the right place.
There was absolutely nothing at all wrong with what this agent said. All logical. All fine from an agent’s point of view.
But from a professional writer’s point of view, I wanted to run screaming into the night when I read that.
Here are My Reason’s Why I Had That Reaction
I have fought for years to keep people out of my office and my head. I want to create what I want to create. I don’t need help. I do need to keep learning and get better at my craft, but I don’t need help in the creation process, and with computers.
And I don’t need help getting my work to any place I want to get it to.
I can publish my own work electronically.
I can publish my own work directly to books and get them in just about all stores.
I can mail my own manuscripts to traditional publishers.
I can negotiate my own contract with a traditional publisher or hire (for very little money) an IP attorney to do it.
I even know how to have an app created if I wanted to spend the money for an app for say Poker Boy. Not that expensive, actually.
So why do I need an agent?
Why do I need to give anything away?
I can learn all this new technology just as fast as any agent, maybe faster. I can ask questions just as well of other writers and friends. And why do I need an agent’s voice in my office telling me what I can write or can’t write?
Okay, granted, I have been working at learning computers, and programs, and helping to set up an electronic publishing business for just under two years now. (Yes, I said only two years. I used to think that computers might blow up if I copied and pasted something. Not kidding.) So maybe I am out ahead of others who are just coming to this stuff. Maybe a few months, a few learning curves is all. Not far. And since I have been working on this for almost two years, I am light years ahead of most agents who didn’t even see a problem until this last summer or fall.
Okay, granted, I like to have control of my own money and my own business. I know many people can’t be bothered with taking control of their own money. Just call me old-fashioned in that way.
So I am different. And I do understand where this agent in her well-reasoned piece is coming from. She’s trying to reassure the writers who want to be taken care of that her job isn’t going away and she can help them, even though I doubt she has ever put one novel up electronically anywhere for any writer. (I don’t know that for a fact, but I would bet…)
Again, all this is logical from her position. Anyone in her spot would start figuring out ways to defend their job. (Why do I keep hearing Mel Brook’s voice in Blazing Saddles when I say that?)
So I read the article and just shuddered because the well-written article by this agent made it clear to me that the agent problem in writing isn’t going away with the increase of electronic publishing.
It’s going to get worse! Much, much worse!
Now we are going to have unlicensed, unregulated strangers not only taking all writers’ money and paperwork, but getting it deposited electronically into their accounts.
Now agents are going to start to claim ownership in a work, claim ownership in covers in packages sold to publishers, claim ownership in layout of manuscripts sent to publishers.
Folks, in case you have never worked with a packager (I have, numbers of them, actually), they tend to get 50% of the gross after expenses (such as covers, design, and so on), which mean you will be getting 50% of net from your agent instead of 85% of gross of the payments from a traditional publisher as has been the rate in the past, or 70% of gross if you publish the book electronically yourself.
That’s what agent Mary Kole and other agents are after and why I was shuddering. Most writers are so stupid, with time they will go for that while the agents swear they are helping them.
That’s right, mark my words, writers will give agents 50% of net instead of 85% of gross very shortly.
Yup, the agents will be helping them right out of over half of their money.
See why this article made me shudder? The agent issues are not going away.
They are getting worse.
And writers are going to let it happen.
What I See Coming…
Okay, let me get out my short-term crystal ball and take a look at the near future. Here are a few predictions, not fun, but what I see happening in relationship to writers and agents, from the writer’s point of view.
– Writers Splitting into Two Factions
There will become two groups of writers, both defending their way of doing things in very angry arguments. We have already seen small flashes of this with some indie writers and traditional-published writers. Each group looks suspect at the other. That divide will change and sharpen dramatically over the next few years.
Those of us who want control and don’t want agents as collaborators will lean more and more toward the indie publishing side and selling our books ourselves to traditional publishers. Those who want to be taken care of will flock to the new way of agents. So the fight won’t be indie writer vs traditional writer, it will be indie writer vs agented writer. And it will get ugly at times. Mark my words.
– Scams will Explode
The horror stories of bad treatment by agents is well documented in the comments of Killing the Sacred Cows of Publishing, but I don’t think we can even imagine the explosion in numbers of scams and writers getting taken by agents. Agents, many agents, are going to be desperate to stay alive and in business as things turn in the next few years.
You think it was hard to trace money from a traditional publisher before, this new world of electronic publishing makes that old way look simple. Read my post a few back in this series about scams so that you can at least be aware of some of the main ones. Remember, anyone with a business card can become an agent. No rules, no regulations. And a lot of money at stake.
— Electronic and POD Self (or Small) Publishing Will Be the New Entry Path to Traditional Publishing
Right now agents, because they have been given the slush piles by publishers, think they control most of the content going to traditional publishers. But in short order, electronic publishing sales of indie-writers will bring traditional publishers and movie producers and games designers and so much more flocking to them.
The top indie-selling books in another year will be like flames drawing in the companies who want to jump on board. This is only starting to happen and it will go around agents. Some agents will also be attracted to the bright lights of the top sellers, but with luck, those writers will turn those agents away.
In this process over the next five to ten years, the slush pile will almost vanish as we know it now and editors will go mostly to solicited novels, either from agents who have published their clients work or from indie publishers.
It will be easier for an editor to be aware of a book and go read it than for it ever to be sent in to an editor. Possibly “future slush piles” could be simple letters giving a pitch on the book and a coupon for the editor to read it for free and take a look at the overall package. And editors will be able to look at a platform of sales.
Note: This is the exact same packaging approach agent Mary Kole in her article was talking about. Editors and publishers will be looking for more completely finished books. Complete packages.
So agents will package and sell and take most of the money, or indie writers will package and sell their own work and keep most of the money. Either way, the slush pile as we know it now will be vanishing for the most part as publishers look for more complete packages instead of just manuscripts. That part I agree with Mary about.
– Writers as a Class Will Start to Regain Power in their Own Minds.
Writers have always been in control, but for some reason as a class we sort of have forgotten. Writers let agents get away with what they do, we let publishers take what they take. As a group, we run everything in publishing, but our problem is that we first don’t believe it. And second, we never agree to band together to stop anything.
For example, even with all the scams and money vanishing without a trace, writers could have forced agents into some sort of regulation and oversight. But, of course, we did not. Writers individually always believe that it is the other agents who are ripping people off, never their own agent.
But this coming clash between the writers with agent packagers and writers who do it all themselves will cause a general shift in writers starting to take control again. Indie writers are already all over the boards screaming about this “control” issue (even though they are falsely aiming it at traditional publishers at the moment). This control issue is not with publishers. It is with other writers giving it up and letting others do all the work. Writers, through contracts, control what they give away or don’t give away to a traditional publisher.
Another sign of the control returning will be more and more writers willing to walk away from traditional deals offered. When a writer understands how much money they can make by publishing it themselves, it’s going to be harder and harder for a traditional publisher to compete. This newly realized ability to walk away from offers will also start increasing the general sense of writer power.
As more and more writers start to realize the power of indie publishing and the money that can be made, the more the split between the two groups of writers will happen.
And then as more writers get scammed or realize that they are giving away over half of their money to an agent packager, the larger the “take control” movement will be.
Writers over the next five to ten years will again start to believe that they have control.
So What is the Upshot of All This?
The article from the agent Mary Kole that started this is very clear and logical and solid from the agent’s point of view.
But she has a very disturbing underlying assumption. She believes that writers want to be taken care of and won’t mind sharing and collaborating and giving more money away.
She’s right for some writers. Many writers won’t mind. Many writers will think they need the help, will buy into the myths that using an agent or agent-as-packager is the only way. Thus this growing movement of indie writers doing it all themselves, including selling to traditional publishers will split professional fiction writers into two major camps. Indie writers and agent/packaged writers.
The battle is just starting. It won’t settle out until long after this electronic revolution in publishing is done and mostly leveled out. And that’s going to be years.
And those of us who hoped that the electronic publishing revolution would kill most of the writer/agent model of publishing have been wrong. It’s just going to change it to agent-as-packager model.
And for writers, that’s a ton worse in so many ways.
On giving a percentage to someone for hired work, the tracking would be a problem as Dean mentions. And where there is a problem, there is also a potential for a lawsuit.
A lawsuit to force an accounting is a distinct possibility. Someone once said that nothing grows in a courtroom (except fees, I would add. I used to be a lawyer in a prior life.) And that is true. It can also be a kind of death by a thousand cuts. Better just bite the bullet and pay for it than to court something like this.
Helpful post as always, Dean.
Scott wrote: “And where there is a problem, there is also a potential for a lawsuit.
A lawsuit to force an accounting is a distinct possibility.”
Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn’t thought about it, but as soon as I read this, I realized, OOPS, there’s yet another good reason to self-published on the basis of flat fees, if one pays for services, rather than issueing percentage cuts. Oy!
Interesting post. I think newer writers will still mostly want an agent to take care of them and their work, but perhaps, once they have more experience of the publishing industry, authors are more willing to go it alone?
I sold my first book without an agent, then got an agent on the strength of that sale and had some happy years with her before she (sadly) died of cancer. For the past couple of years I’ve been agentless again.
I’d say the most frustrating thing for me over here in the UK has been submitting my work to slush piles again, with the big publishers just not looking at direct submissions and refusing to talk directly to an author. But smaller publishers seem happy to do so, and what I did once on my own I can do again…
Dean,
I think it’s a bit unfair for people to say that agents shy away from selling, or aren’t good at it. After all, anyone who has been able to sell so many would-be authors on the various agent myths must be extremely talented and persistent in selling.
Why do I say this? Because they are myths, and have been for several generations. I sold my first book over 50 years ago without an agent. I sold every one of perhaps 60 books since then without an agent.
One time, a student of mine used a NY agent with an excellent reputation to sell a book for her, so I decided to try this agent. She took on a ms. of mine, but gave up after several months saying she couldn’t sell it. I went back to my usual practice of selling my own ms. The book was sold, and up until now (The Secrets of Consulting is still in print) has sold over 250,000 copies. Made more than a million $$ for me.
Would I have gotten a better deal if I’d used an agent. Who knows, but how much money does a person need. I’ve become rich on my writing w/o the help of any agent.
Now that we have eBooks, I’m also doing very well w/o an agent. Many years ago, I saw the coming of eBooks and crossed out the e-rights clauses on all of my contracts. Agents were not doing that 50 years ago, or even 10. Now I have the e-rights to all of my books, something I wouldn’t have had with the “help” of an “agent.”
So, why do we think “agents” will be any different in the future:
- unable to sell our books, but able to sell their own self-serving myths
- unable to see the trends in the industry and help their clients (really, their employers) to take advantage of them
- unable even to see what will sell and what won’t
On this last, I recall Tony Hillerman telling me the story of his first agent, who said of his first Navajo mystery, “It would be a good book, Tony, but get rid of this Indians.”
Jerry, Thanks! It really does help to see working professionals who have done the agent-less route.
If I had waited for an agent to sell a book for me, I would have ZERO books sold instead of over a hundred. But, of course, we are the odd one out, aren’t we, in the minds of people who still believe in the agent myths. Yet professional writer after professional writer say the same thing, that they sold books without agents. Thanks, Katherine for chiming in on that as well.
Katherine, the large publishers are looking at direct submissions. They just have to say they are not. And with your credits, no editor is not going to look. They still may send you back the form letter if the book isn’t right for them that says get an agent, but they will have looked. And if they like it, and it fits their line, trust me, they won’t give a care if you have an agent or not. Honest.
Cheers
Dean
Gerald wrote: “After all, anyone who has been able to sell so many would-be authors on the various agent myths must be extremely talented and persistent in selling.”
This reminds me of an eye-opening conversation I had with a friend whose background was in big business. After leaving my fourth agent, I expressed bewildered frustration to my friend. Before hiring each of my former agents, I had been painstakingly (nay, excruciatingly!) thorough in the interviewing and hiring process. In each case, I had made it a long and detailed process involving multiple conversations and letters or emails. I had been detailed, explicit, and repetitious in each instance (getting more so each time, as each association then floundered in turn) about what my needs, requirements, and expectations were in a literary agent. In every instance, they assured that I was described exactly who they were as an agent, that they functioned exactly the way I was saying my next agent needed to function.
In every case… this proved to be untrue, and the problems invariably started within WEEKS of my hiring them.
And so, after #4, I was raging to my friend, wondering: What part of what I keep saying to these people is NOT clear to them? How can I possibly be any more specific than I’ve already been?
And my friend said, no, you’re always pretty direct and clear. And if you said what you’re telling me you said, then they certainly understood you.
So I said, in that case, why am I such an idiot that four times in a row, I couldn’t see they were talking rubbish when they assured me that I was describing -them- to a “T.” Why do I keep falling for this?
And my friend, with over a decade of success in big business, point out, they’re SALES people, and the first line of success for them is selling THEMSELVES. So if they have, for whatever reason decided they want you as a client (and in all four cases, in retrospect, I really don’t know what the reason was, but I think it was certainly mistaken or misguided), then they will say whatever they need to say to sell themselves to you. And you bought it–which just means that they’re good at selling themselves, not necessarily that you’re an idiot.
My friend thought, however, it was a trend that suggested I probably shouldn’t hire an agent again, since after four false reads, I still have no idea what I missed or how to read a prospective agent more accurately in future during the hiring interviews.
Boy, Jerry and Laura, you guys are right. I hadn’t thought of it that way before, but since agents have no real position in publishing other than one they made up to scarf writer money, then of course they would be good at selling themselves and the myth. Duh. Had not thought of that at all. Not sure why. More than likely I because I already knew all three of the agents I had before I picked up the phone and talked with them.
And you know, when I picked up the phone and talked with them, in only one case did I even talk to them about selling a book. It was always about overseas agents, contract departments, and stuff I considered important, since I was selling all my own books. And the one time, and I do mean the ONLY TIME I ever asked an agent to try to sell a book for me, they failed and gave up after seven tries and told me to write something new.
Thanks guys, for this new insight. Just hadn’t thought of agents in that fashion due to my own record with them.
Dean wrote: “the ONLY TIME I ever asked an agent to try to sell a book for me, they failed and gave up after seven tries and told me to write something new.”
That sub-topic is where I came in, months ago! (g) Allow me a moment of nostaglia as I say again what I said back then:
None of my four former agents ever stuck with a MS as “long” as seven submissions. None of them ever hung in there longer than 4 rejections, and on at least two occasions, they quit after -1- rejection.
And Laura, that’s why I don’t have an agent, tell writers to sell their own books, and have a hundred novels sold and published now traditionally.
What I find even more funny is that writers think I have some sort of advantage, like a book from me will have a magic pass to editors. Uh, no. I get form rejections all the time, I write under a number of pen names, many of which are unpublished, and I don’t know most of the editors I send stuff to. The only difference between me and some writer who thinks they can’t sell a book without an agent is that I know I can by simply mailing an editor a submissions package and see if they like it or not. It really is that simple.
Now, with the ghost books, that’s another matter. I don’t go after them, they come to me. But the editors I send submissions to don’t know me from the man-in-the-moon.
But I can yack about that for years and most writers won’t believe us, Laura, Jerry, and all the others who have proven me right. This agent myth has been sold so well by the agents, it’s deep.
Dean,
Great post. I’m just glad that we have these new options. With all the new opportunities available to us, I can understand why the old school/super agents are moving toward retirement. I know some writers who are planning on doing a combination of traditional and indie, but more and more I’m wondering if there is any sense in sending anything to traditional publishing houses in today’s market? If I were to look at them as I would before making an investment, their current shaky footing and ever more typical offers of “deals of diminishing returns” don’t bolster my confidence.
Marta
Hello and thank you, everyone, for all of the amazing and useful insight. I am an indie author who published my first book four years ago. Through lack of proper planning and research, not much came of it for sales, though reaction from readers has been positive. Not enough marketing on my part, etc etc. My concern though, it that I want to keep self-publishing but with PODs like the one I published with, the cost of physical books is higher than the traditional publishers. This limits the length of my work. E-publishing is no issue, but as a large part of the market is still in physical books in the stores, I want to be able to provide both. Does anyone have any insight on this issue?
As an old Traditional Publisher, who made decisions like that all the time, I can tell you that wonders can be done with font size, font type, margin size, leading and other layout features to hold the page count down. Play with your layout. Amazing what you can do and still have a perfectly readable book.
Also, if you have a monster, think of cutting it into sections like traditional publishers do. All tricks of being a publisher.
And remember, trade paperbacks range in price from $13.99 and up, so if you can stay in the $15.99 range you are fine. WMG just did Kris’s Freelancer’s Survival Guide at over 200,000 words and it came in at $24.99 trade paper. But nonfiction can handle that price.
Cheers
Dean
Thank you, Dean, for the response and info. I will try this. I just found a self publisher that sounds interesting. I don’t know if it is a good idea to name them, so I won’t. They claim not to charge more than the wholesale printing costs. With them, the author retains all rights, and also prices the book themselves. There are two costs for their services; $1497, or $3798 for the big package. Costly indeed, but the level of control and the fact that the author receives 100% of all royalties is attractive. Perhaps this would be a viable option if I can generate the sales.
Ramon, NO!!!!! Go with Lulu or CreateSpace or LighteningSource. There costs are under $100.00. You are dealing with a vanity publisher for those rates. No!!!!!!!!!
CreateSpace is my favorite because their program is $39.00 and you book goes directly to Amazon. Don’t do anything else.
Wow! My goodness! Thank you! I know to stay away from vanity presses, but I guess they have gotten smart enough not to admit that is what they are. I am researching as of right now. I will check out CreateSpace immediately. This is why I haven’t moved on anything yet. There is so much murk to weed through. I don’t mind hard work, and I don’t mind doing what I can and hiring someone once or repeatedly (multiple projects) for each novel. I’d been debating for a while on the whole agent thing, and I think this article has pushed me over the fence to avoid them. I just need ebook and bookstore presence.
Again, thank you so much!
Ramon, I did a blog post for Ninc.com last year about the differences between legitimate self-publishing ventures and vanity scams in the print market. You might to take a look at at (and also see if anything here sounds familiar in terms of the company you’re talking about):
http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/publishing-printing-or-scam
However, in general, I would say that for the print market, selling a book to a publisher is a much better way to go than self-publishing; and selling to a well-established mid-size house or major house is a better way to go than a small or start-up press. (“Better” referring to the physical production values, sales support, and distribution the book will get.)
Dean wrote: “I get form rejections all the time,”
Likewise.
Although I just finished writing a draft of a NINK column in which, among other things, I reminisce about an editor who I -wish- had sent me a form rejection. About two years ago, instead of doing that, an editor (one whom I had never met and didn’t know) picked up the phone to call me personally to tell me in detail just what an “effort” it had been to “wade through” a full chapter of my submission.
I see why you favor CreateSpace! My biggest concern has always been that with PODs, the cost of the book for consumers was so much higher. This is shaping up to be the best that I have seen so far! You have given me a big jump in my research. I’ve been searching off and on for months now, as my recent novel has been approaching completion. I don’t know how I’ve missed this one!
Thank you, Laura. I will look at it now. I am trying to learn from those of you who are seasoned and kind enough to share your knowledge. My reasoning behind self publishing is primarily control, ownership, and timelines. The latter being that although I must front all costs, I’m not waiting (in some cases) years for a possible approval, or rejection. Not to say I’m sitting by the mailbox waiting, I am of course writing, but this shortens the wait time. Perhaps this is me being the upstart indie who doesn’t want to be patient. I honestly don’t know. I am willing to pay my dues and work hard, but the thought of waiting for so long to get my work into readers’ hands is the bitter pill to swallow.
For quite a while, now, I’ve been mentally balancing the pros and cons of each avenue. The level of support and exposure with large traditional publishers is still uncontested and cannot be discounted. Its trying to shine through the slush pile that can leads to many great stories going untold, and it really is no one’s fault, as publishers have limited staff and get inundated with manuscripts annually.
What to do…
Ramon, read back through the posts on this topic. You might discover back in those posts (under the tab at the top called New World of Publishing) that you can do both just fine. I am, many are.
And it’s great fun. You should never toss out 90% of all readers just because it seems hard. Sad for those readers, to be honest.
By the way, folks. I am one of those 90% readers so many of you talk about tossing away with the dishwater. I don’t own a reading device. Of any sort.
I still read old-fashioned paper manuscripts for workshops and judging Writers of the Future. And I still read those old-fashioned books and paper magazines. Doesn’t mean I don’t have almost 40 things up electronically, not counting what New York has done for my books under my different names. But when you think “I don’t need traditional publishing.” Realize I won’t be reading your work for the most part and that’s sad for me.
Laura, I read your blog. Although I agree with most of what you said, I think there is a grey area with this. For instance. The first book I ‘printed’ was in no way a “I don’t need traditional publishers” move. I wrote it, self edited, rewrote some parts, then hired a professional editor. I knew that I would be dealing with the ‘self published’ stigma, and did my best to produce a quality work that was both entertaining and professionally presented. My biggest issue with traditional publishers has been the wait times. I learned then, as now, that I have a lot to learn about the industry, and although I am a firm believer that everyone must pay their dues, does waiting years and years have to be part of it? I have since submitted the book as a manuscript to publishers and have begun receiving the inevitable rejections. Part of one sticks out in my mind;
“It is evident that you have invested a great deal of time and effort developing your story…”
Was this praise or form rejection? *chuckles*
Ramon,
Yup, years and years.
The biggest issue all new writers have is that they are in a hurry. I know I was as well when I first started coming in. And that desire for speed causes all kinds of really silly decisions. I know I made a bunch all because I thought things should take less time.
But let me give you a reality check. Ten years. If you work really, really, really hard, you might break in sometime between 7 and 10 years. I know, sounds awful.
But say you decide you want to be an attorney in your local town (not an internationally selling writer), so you go to school. (4 years of undergrad, 3 years of Law school) Yup, seven years and a lot of time and money spent to learn and you have now earned the right to hang out a shingle or go get a job as a lawyer. Will you make a lot of money in that 8th year? Not likely, but it will grow.
Why oh why oh why would any writer wanting to become an internationally know writer think it would take less time than becoming a local attorney?????????
Why do people think that becoming an internationally selling writer is like going to work for a used car dealer??? Anyone with a pen and an English teacher who thought they could write a sentence thinks they can do it quicker than getting a job at a used car lot. Sigh… But sadly, I was no different at times. And I had just come out of law school where I had spent thousands per semester, had given up everything, to go to school.
So I gave up everything to become an internationally selling writer and guess what? It took a while. About seven years from the start of the hard work to selling the first novel.
Time is part of this business. If you can’t deal with that, folks, might want to find another business.
Dean wrote: “I don’t own a reading device. Of any sort.”:
Me, either.
In fact, I recently had a bookalanche–that is, I reached overhead to pull a book from a stack atop a bookcase, and the whole pile fell on my head. This inspired me to ORGANIZE the stacks of books here. The upshot was that I realized I’ve got about 300 books I’ve yet to read. NO NEW BOOKS ALLOWED IN THE HOUSE until I read them. (Okay, I’ve already broken that rule. About five times in two months. Sue me.)
But already owning a ton of books I want to read ensures I don’t really want to get an e-reader. Not even on my “if I had money to burn” wishlist.
In addition to which, well over half the books I buy are for research, and most of them are older books. So far, it’s extremely rare for me to see any of them listed as e-books. This may well change, but until a lot more of the books I want are available as e-books, an e-reader isn’t even on my radar of potential possessions.
Dean, what you said, that is my hope. I’m not afraid of hard work and honing my craft. What you said about developing inventory was a big kick in the pants to get myself working harder and faster. (my new goal is at least two books a year, we’ll see) I truly see the value of traditional publishing, but perhaps there are some truly viable options out there.
I own an ereader and physical books and love both. I want to appeal to both.
Laura, perhaps another option is to publish electronically while submitting to traditional publishers? It may be a very small splash, but this may aid in creating a reputation while awaiting the publisher responses??
I definitely see the truth in what you say about the necessity of a traditional publisher for the high level of success an author desires.
Ramon, oh, yeah, you clearly have not read the stuff before this. I talked about doing just that. And we discussed it a lot. Go read all the back posts in this topic. Honest, it will help.
Dean, I admit that though I have read some of the previous blogs, I haven’t read them all ‘yet’, so thank you for your patience. In regards to the time factor. All I can say is thank you for the insight. My biggest problem has always been impatience. Just before the housing bust, I purchased three ‘rental’ houses on the strength of my credit alone. I wanted to have ten rental houses netting $100 each cashflow per month. I wanted these ten houses within a year! A YEAR! I’m sure I don’t need to tell you how that ended. It was a valuable lesson and I guess I could heed that lesson here as well. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it, and any person who likes to read and thinks they can write a novel would be shoveling content into the doors of bookstores. I am starting to see you and Laura’s point in the matter. I guess the big lesson for the day is patience. Maybe five years, maybe seven, maybe ten. This is what I need to do, so I guess I’ll be on that day job a bit longer.
Time for me to go back and read the rest of these previous blogs.
And don’t forget the comments on them. This is like an ongoing classroom here and I learn as much as everyone else.
Fire on, we all start somewhere. At least you want to learn and that makes other writers want to help you. A very good thing. Can’t begin to tell you how many young writers with a few short stories and maybe a novel written have told me how wrong I am and how little I know about this business. Happens more than you can ever imagine, actually. I’ve learned to shrug and just wish them luck. They won’t make it, so not worth my time to say anything. But with someone like you and many of the people here, who want and are hungry to learn, I have zero issue in giving opinions and trying to help.
And what’s scary about the years. When you look ahead at them, they seem forever. When you make it and look back, they flashed past because you were learning and writing and working on getting better.
Your generosity is much appreciated. I find it amazing that anyone wouldn’t value the opinions and insight from someone who is a success in their field of choice.
In regards to the timelines, I remember watching a movie with my brother and seeing an actor who was playing a small role, but was now a big time A list actor. Often, it looks like the actor or actress was an overnight success, but the truth is that they’ve been at it for years, doing small parts and background (guess what else I’m doing) work. What we see as them popping up big overnight was actually the result of years of honing their craft and patiently working for that big break they finally got. I guess I forgot that lesson. *self deprecating chuckle* Well, I am now reading the blog and comments, and doing my best to take this lesson to heart.
Can’t thank you enough, and appreciate you taking the time to help me understand this often misunderstood industry. I will eventually have the pleasure of laughing at myself along with the crowd at my signings, when I’m relating my impetuousness as a fledgling, and one of the veterans helping me reign myself in.
My pops used to say, “you got more time than money,” isn’t that the truth…
Why would people think writing is easy?
Because of Jessica Fletcher and Richard Castle.
.
Seriously, yes I know everyone here already knows this, but I do have to grimace when people think that that’s what writing is, or when for some reason they believe that J. K. Rowling, Stephen King, etc. etc. were “overnight” successes.
Dean, how do you get your books into bookstores without a traditional publisher?
Livia, how to get books into a bookstore without a traditional publisher? Actually, in almost the same way traditional publishers do. (Yeah, I know, that doesn’t help. (grin))
First off, go to one of the top POD publishers (not vanity). They will charge you between $39.00 and around $100.00 to get your book in their system. You have to do all the layout and everything, which is a learning curve and you need InDesign program, but if you like books, you can lay out your own fairly easily with some learning. Then pay the money to get into their distribution programs. I use CreateSpace, but Lightening Source is also fine. With CreateSpace, your book ends up at once listed on Amazon.com because Amazon owns CreateSpace. Then in a month or two, your book starts appearing on the major book distributors catalogs that all bookstores use. Baker and Taylor and Ingram. However, your book will only be listed as available, but not in stock. Meaning that the stores can get it, but it will take a few extra days. (It’s a special code on the listings.)
Next a couple of things can happen. You first have to have set up yourself as a publishing company (nothing special, just pick a name). Then the first thing that might happen is that your book starts getting some orders, say from a half dozen bookstores. B&T or Ingram computers will trigger that and order more from the POD publisher on a returnable basis and put them in their warehouses and that will change the code on your book.
Second, you would need to submit your book (and this is where being a publisher with a number of titles available) to the major chains. It is reviewed by a book buyer (just as all New York books are reviewed by book buyers) and if they think your book will sell, they will order so many copies for all the stores from your POD publisher. (You don’t have to buy the books upfront, the POD publishers have programs to fill these kinds of orders. All done for you.)
If your book isn’t accepted by the buyer to be stocked for a short time on the shelves, it is still available in all the stores through their special order desk. Again, same as many books who don’t make it into the big chains from traditional publishers.
It really is that simple, and that hard. But there is only so much shelf room in these major stores, so not all books from traditional publishers get in, and not all books done by smaller publishers get in. But many do. All the time. If the cover is good, the blurbs good, and the buyer for the store thinks it will sell.
But step one go to a POD publisher like CreateSpace, design and layout your own book in InDesign, and then get it approved by CreateSpace and in print. Trust me, that first step is a learning curve, but when you hold that paper book in your hand that you designed and wrote, it’s a thrill.
Very helpful info! And in much more detail than I had expected
I’m somewhat familiar with the process up until the listing in the catalogue. What does submitting a book to the major chains entail? Calling the buyer’s office? Mailing them? Are connections important at this stage? How much time do you typically spend on this step?
Livia, each major chain has a program for smaller publishers to get their books into the line. You have to do all the standard business stuff, like fill out your business name and the number of titles you publish per year, and that sort of business financial stuff, but it’s all there and pretty clear. I would NOT recommend even trying this until you are functioning pretty smoothly as a publisher. Meaning don’t do this on your first or even tenth project. Get the kinks worked out and go the route of sales driving your books to the major distributors like Baker and Taylor. You get there, that would be the time to jump at the big chains.
I did 287 different titles when I was the publisher of Pulphouse Publishing Inc. from 1987 to 1995. I thought a few times of running at the big chains of my time, but in all cases backed off as not worth my time. It is a ton easier these days than it was in my first publishing days. But still have all your ducks in a row. Once turned down, for any reason, the book doesn’t get a second shot. Remember, the chains, just like New York, work on the produce model, meaning the book has a very short shelf life. You miss your window with a book, it’s dead as far as they are concerned, even though they will be selling it across their special order desk just fine.
By the way, Kris was standing in the dealer’s room this weekend at a convention back east and one of the dealers looked one of her books from WMG Publishing up on Baker and Taylor and it was there. One of the first couple WMG Publishing put in the POD system. The dealer could have ordered it right there in the dealer’s room and had them delivered in a week to the store. That was through the $39.00 premier package at CreateSpace.
So any bookstore and any book dealer can get the book easily. Compared to my old Pulphouse days, this is heaven. Period. Pulphouse would have still been in business if this system existed back then.
Dean, Laura, and everyone, thank you for your insightful responses. I am buried in edits and just got the chance to get back to this but didn’t want to let my thanks be unsaid. It makes much more sense now. Much more.
Just found a new example of an agent blocking rather than enabling a writer’s career.
http://editorialanonymous.blogspot.com/2011/01/quick-answers.html
Dean, first off, I agree with everything you say in the post. I’ve spent the better part of the last 25 years railing against the traditional publishing model. The “problem” is that most authors don’t seem to understand how to make money from all the sources AFTER they write and publish a book. Everyone I work with ends up making substantially more money because they BOTH understand how to publish themselves AND they understand that the “real” money is NOT in the book. It’s in everything that comes AFTER it!