Yes, I Know That is a Dream for Many…
But it is a horrid (and I mean horrid beyond words) path for writers now in 2018.
But Dean, how can you say that? You first published with traditional publishing, right? Yes, I sold my first novel in 1987 and did my last work for them in 2008. I did 106 books (that I can remember) through traditional big-five book publishing. I am pretty convinced that even by my math, most of that was last century.
Let me repeat that. Last century. You know, dial phones hooked to a wall with cords, no internet, no email. That century.
Yet traditional book publishing hasn’t changed in the slightest from those old dial-up days and writers still want to work with them. Stuns me.
We are almost to 2019 and times do change. I know some of you who had dreams of publishing in traditional big-five publishing have had the dream since last century when they were the only game in town. It is time to change that dream and get moving with your writing. Go buy a smart phone, in other words.
Why tonight on this topic? Because I sadly saw not one, but two comments today from writers with this old thinking. One writer was on their fifth draft and ready to send off the manuscript to an agent after working on it for six years. I wrote about 70 different books in the last six years. Another writer’s comment was that they were on their second rewrite from an agent.
Shudder.
So just to preach to the choir here (for the most part) and maybe make a few people angry who still have the fairy-dust dream of being anointed by a gatekeeper in a windowless office in a big corporation in New York, I thought I would just quickly list eight major reasons to avoid traditional book publishing. (Traditional short fiction publishers are great, for the most part. No issue with them. I am talking big-five book publishers.)
Reason One…
— They take all your copyright for the life of your work, and often will buy your characters and worlds if you are not super careful. You can’t negotiate with them on this, especially if you went begging to them with your tin cup manuscript in your hand.)
Reason Two…
— You need a book agent to deal with them. Book agents really are equal to dial-up phones, or better put, pay phones that take your money and never make a connection. (You got to be really old, meaning you had to live in the 1970s to remember that.) Book agents will also take your copyright if not careful, and also your money. A very large percentage of them are scams these days.
Reason Three…
— You will make no more sales than you could publishing the book indie, and actually in a few short years your indie sales will pass any possible traditional publishing sales. And you will not be able to trust the traditional publisher’s royalty statements every six months. Their accounting systems are also stuck back in dial-up phone land. Not kidding.
Reason Four…
— They will price your book so high that most fans won’t be able to afford it, and will not get your work out around the world either.
Reason Five…
— Your book is produce to a traditional publisher, meaning that after a month or so they no longer care, to them your book has spoiled, and they will do nothing to promote your book after that point, if they promoted it at all ahead of publication.
Reason Six…
— It takes forever to sell a book to traditional publishing, often if you count the agent time, rewriting time, and publishing time, three to five years from writing the book to it being published. You sell a book tomorrow to traditional and B&N goes down before your book is published, you are done. Chances are your book will never be published, but they will own and keep all the rights to it anyway. (You signed the contract, sorry.)
Reason Seven…
You must write what they want you to write, not what you want to write. And also, you must write slower, do fewer books, and often contracts will keep you from writing for anyone else in any genre and any series. Not kidding.
Reason Eight…
The biggest reason for me. You lose all control of your book. And maybe all of your writing depending on the contract you sign. They put a bad cover on your book, a bad blurb, and give you a bad copyeditor and there is not one thing you can do to change that. Nothing. You have no control at all.
—–
Now, I am sure folks can come up with dozens more reasons to stay away from the big traditional book publishers. But for me I needed to just list these tonight because I sure couldn’t say anything to those poor souls lost in the myth and the rewriting and the desire for fairy dust to be sprinkled on their book by a faceless being in New York.
This really is almost 2019. Too bad so many writers still love dial phones hooked by a long cord to a wall. And heaven help you if you try to hand them a smart phone.
When I made the break, it was harder than I thought. All of have been to a bookstore and enjoyed going through the shelves to find a new writer we want to read or look for a book by one we love to read. All that feeling makes it hard to think about change…and indie really is a change. The idea of a gatekeeper is a safety net. It says, “They thought I’m good enough!” because a lot of people don’t have that confidence. With indie, you skip that step and put the story out for the world to see. Some of the comments I’ve seen from writers that terrifies them. Revision is a safety net, because they can always go back and feel like they’re making the story better.
I made the shift from traditional publishing for several reasons. One was how long it took before publishing even happened. You sent it to an agent for a year, or more. If you get interest, it gets shopped to a publisher…probably another year, during which editors can change, marketing can change. The result is at least 2-3 years before the book sees the light of day. And they tell us “We want fresh and knew. But your book has be like an existing one.” That is insane! How can a book be fresh and knew if it’s like an existing one. The final nail was length. I may get longer as I write more (now that I’ve hit a few much needed skill areas), but if I write a novella length story, I probably can’t see it anywhere unless I add to the word count and ruin the story.
The publishers really need to change their system. They can get a non-fiction book out in a very short period of time and promote it like crazy to get sales…but a novel takes years just to get published…and meanwhile the indie’s are getting books out as fast as they can write, get copy edits, and get covers.
I find that interesting. Imagine if a non-fiction book about Hurricane Sandy were just getting published now…people would have forgotten about it (unless it’s linked to this year’s hurricanes). Especially with attention spans being so short.
An indie author I’ve grown to love just released a trilogy and a novella in the span of seven weeks, and let me tell you, it’s high quality stuff. She also released a fourth novel and co written two more this year. That’s seven books! You can see the same story from a lot of indies. Yet we are seeing the same thing from the old guard, 2-3 of pre debut hype and I’m like “when can I read it?” Sometimes, I forget all about a book because of this. I’m trying to remember about some book I heard about two years ago, and I’m not even sure it’s out yet!
All those legal and financial reasons are reason enough. But for me, I’m almost 40 and just started writing seriously a couple years ago, and my concern is I don’t want to wait a decade to have one lousy book out. I want to be prolific and write in a lot of different genres. I want to catch up, in a sense, to where I could have been.
I think the value of being traditionally published is itself a myth. I know this because I sometimes still feel the pangs of temptation to pitch an agent. Why? Because I remember the old days of phones you discuss — remember having to answer the house phone with no caller ID? You were rolling the dice every time because I didn’t know if it was your crazy uncle on the line! (Side note: this is why these whippersnappers today don’t know how to talk to people, they didn’t have that battle training). Anyway, I grew up reading traditionally published authors, so it was THE way to be a pro writer. That can be hard to shake, but your blog and books help break it down. There’s a part of us who think we’re going to make $100+ million like Stephen King if only we get one big book deal.
Here’s another example of creative freedom with being indie: nowadays, a lot of NYC editors and agents want “diverse” books, the definition of which changes daily. If your book isn’t PC or trendy, then they don’t want it. Sorry, but I like, among other genres, old school noir and hardboiled mystery. Books with “dames” and “broads” and violence and booze and not nice words.
I know of an author that was published with the Big 5 that had his book censored/rejected by NYC editors because it wasn’t PC enough. They terminated his contract, but thankfully got the rights to his books back after going indie, they are selling better than ever and he’s writing even more books to this day.
It’s one of the reasons why I’m indie publishing. I keep telling the people in my group this, since my stories deal with some topics in a controversial manner (where it might upset the PC crowd) and fear the same thing that happened to him to me, but worse. Many of my writer friends that are pursing agents keep saying “no, NYC won’t censor your book, you’re paranoid”. Even after I tell them the story. I’m right to be paranoid, based on the facts and horror stories I’ve read and heard here and elsewhere. Losing all my rights and control to a bunch of people that I will never meet? No thanks.
I also find it odd that there’s a section of the indie base that still desires an agent and traditional publishing deal, and I’m wondering, ‘why’? Then again, they might be enamored with the fame or feel it’s the only way to be a legitimate writer. I occasionally have that too, but quickly remind myself of the high price of that fame.
I have a good friend who is still stuck in this dream. She thinks that because a family member has a connection to a big name author she’ll be able to get in touch with a major agent and sell her book traditionally. She also says she’s focused more on the quality of her writing than on producing lots of books and making money. (That’s another ball of wax, obviously.)
There isn’t much I can say at this point. I’ve tried and all of it slides off like she’s made of Teflon. So I just smile, nod, and keep writing, publishing, and learning.
I understand the dream, I really do. The problem is that I also understand the reality of today’s publishing world. :/
That’s like my former cowriter. We were in Washington, DC, which is a dead zone for writing fiction and general creativity. He was convinced first that a romance writer friend could get a foot in the door for us for the thriller we were writing (the romance writer was vehemently anti-gun and, well, it was a thriller. That didn’t end well).
Then he thought we could network with an agent at a local writing conference and sell the book that way. She enjoyed talking to us, had a blast, and rejected the submission.
Then he became convinced that the only way we could get the book published was if he networked to the right person.
Nothing was ever in there about the actual writing…
Linda, yup, the writing tends to be forgotten by so many in traditional, while in indie it is up front for all but the promotional-focused few. I like the writing being the important thing. (grin)
My Scam-O-Meter went off a number of years ago at a conference. Someone I was chatting with was over the moon. He had a “great” meeting with the agent everyone wanted. This agent had read his manuscript and wanted rewrites. The writer was overjoyed to then pay thousands of dollars to a book doctor that the agent recommended. Who just happened to be the agents wife. I don’t think this guy’s books ever saw the light of day. This was when I swore I’d never go to an agent. The indie world makes it a lot easier to keep my promise to myself.
That was Don Maass. That scam is still running I think because he and his wife never run out of poor baby writers with a dream of talking on a dial-up phone.
Excellent points Dean.
I have published my own book and now currently writing book 2.
A lot of young authors on twitter are posting proudly of their signings with agents and publishers. And it saddens me they still believe in this route. (they most likely have not read your posts or any other authors who lecture on the importance of indie publishing)
Sometimes I feel as if maybe I’m not a valid author because I chose to not go the traditional route. That maybe my book is not good enough and I need validation from the so called experts. But then I realize I have control over my story. And if my story is good, it will find it’s audience. And I like (love) my stories. I’m entertaining myself. Ha!
I’m in this for the long haul. I’ve got a full-time job and write when I’m not working and if my writing turns into something I could concentrate full time and quit my job. AWESOME!
If not, Oh well. I’m still going to write my stories.
Thank you for the inspiration and sharing your knowledge.
And by the way this reply has not been edited. Ha! 1st draft.
Regards.
All too often, a person’s “dream” can turn into a nightmare. Going with Trad Pub (and their carnivorous contracts) is probably a sure-fire way to wind up living the nightmare instead of the dream.
“Now, I am sure folks can come up with dozens more reasons to stay away from the big traditional book publishers. “
The money. To quote Deep Throat, “Follow the money.” Or lack thereof… 🙁
Dean, thanks for this. I’m just getting back into writing, with a goal of publishing in the near future. Currently all the advice I’m getting on Twitter is find an agent and go traditional, since there’s a free-for-all agent pitch happening on twitter this week. So glad I picked up the Storybundle with your books last month and found my way here. I think you’ve saved me from making huge mistakes later on.
The agent pitch is actually today! I thought I would be the only one to note this.
I’ve been reading through Barry N. Malzberg again. His book of essays, The Bend at the End of the Road, just came out so I pulled out, Breakfast in the Ruins, as well.
His chapter in Breakfast, Some Notes on the Lone Wolf, talk about him writing ten books in 1973 for a brand new series. That he had done similar numbers before, and saw no problem.
1970 – 14 books
1971 – 12 books
1972 – 9 books
The stories of the industry are heart breaking as always. What those guys could have done if they had access to the current technology for Indy publishing books. Yet, as you say, people are still trapped in that thinking.
What will happen when B&N goes away. Here in Santa Fe we have no real bookstores any more. It may take a generation that does not grow up going to bookstores before they let go of the Trad Myth.
Choir member here. (raises timid finger)
At age 21, I viewed a tradpub deal as a semi-obstacle to success — for some of the reasons you’ve mentioned — and not as a goddamned coronation. After all, it was the only game in town. Thank God I never got a seat at that table, but then again I didn’t try all that hard.
Now, at 43, I am very, very glad that the publishing world has realigned itself and given me the chance to have an independent writing career. Over fifty projects and counting, under both my own pen name and as a ghost.
I wish I could say this to a friend of mine. She just got a deal with a Big 5 publisher, a two book deal for the book she wrote three or four years ago now and another unnamed book. A big enough deal that it was in Publisher’s Weekly. And even while I congratulated her, I wanted to beg her not to do this. I wanted that when she signed with her agent 2 years ago. But I can’t say that, because she’d never believe me; this is, after all, how you become a real writer.
Her book is due out in 2020. As slow as I write (my 400 words a day), I’m willing to put money on my book coming out first.
Mary, you can’t say anything, just hope she is one of the lottery winners who makes it past book two or three. And then be ready to help, without recriminations, when her career with the traditional publisher collapses and she needs to learn indie or stop writing. That’s when you can help her. But that is five to eight years off, sadly, for all the books this writer will not write in that period of time.
Dean, perfect timing for this post, since there’s a big twitter pitch event going on today. And I realized a few things.
First, agents and publishers, while they say they want ‘original’ stories, actually want ‘the same, but different’. For YA SFF (which is my primary genre right now), a teen girl that discovers they are supernatural and finds a love interest (or two) and now has to battle evil with no experience and find out their close ones are liars, all taken super seriously, with little to no humor. Bonus points if you can put a ‘message’ or two in it. My current project diverts quite a bit from the formula (no romance is a big one), and without making major changes, it’s probably a no-sell to traditional publishing. And even if it were to sell, I would have to make changes that I wouldn’t like because someone in New York decided it was more marketable to change the story. That’s if it’s not rejected altogether and at that point, you’re screwed since you signed your rights away.
Second, so many of my fellow writer friends encourage me to try to get an agent because it’s how it’s done and look at indie publishing as too hard or that nobody will read it. Only one group I hang out with seems to be okay with me going indie due to what I explained above (they are indies). I’m a control freak and I want to know everything was my call, not someone else’s. I spent too many years kowtowing my writing to the demands of others and it suffered. I want to write and publish at my pace, and I think waiting a year or more for the next book (due to publication schedules) is odd in a world where other media is getting published at that pace or faster. Plus, waiting until 2024 to see my book published does not appeal to me.
Talking about the price, some teens have recently mentioned that the price of YA books are becoming prohibitive for the targeted groups and seem more appealing for adult readers (that’s for another day), and $10 ebooks is still the standard, which I think is too high when I can sometimes get the physical copy for less.
Life is weird. In the 80s and 90s I was so focused on getting an agent, selling a book to the trade. I thought, “Get published, and the world is mine.”
Then my world got all f**ked. My mother declined into dementia, and I was her primary caregiver. I don’t regret any single day, but it was hard and tragic every dang slogging step.
Go forward to ‘09, and I’m finally writing again, tinkering mostly, just for me. I sent a book around to agents, got the same message: we like the story/ protagonist/ writing but …. so I stopped sending and continued writing for me.
I finally realized what was going on with the ebook revolution in 2013, but I didn’t really get disciplined with my writing until a year later. I published 4 books in 2015 and haven’t looked back.
I have lessons still to learn—keeping bum in chair is one, not getting distracted from the primary project is another, but I’m happier with my self-pubbed writing
The NaNoWriMo newbies have bought into the myths. I cringed when I heard them dream. I cringed more when I heard one long term wannabe (in a local writing seminar) tell a couple of writers to take out a loan, scrap the day job, and finish their MS and send to a publisher, that they would definitely get a contract. No, just no. She wasn’t published herself and she was telling them to do this! And other newbies scribbled down her advice.
I aimed the two young men at your website but doubt they listened to me. After all, what could I possibly know?
I decided then to listen only to pros.
That’s when I also realized I had mercifully escaped the critique group trap, first because of the job and then my mom.
Like I said, life is weird. I could be a “couple of pubbed books wonder”, bitter about lost chances, angry at my loss of control over my writing. Instead I am happily writing new stories.
Basically, this is a rant as well as a realization of great gratitude to the providence that delayed my success in writing.
Thank you, Dean (and Kris), for keeping reality at the forefront.
Feel free to pass on this post, delete or shorten at will.
Hi Dean, great insights as usual- Could you talk sometime about the small press market? Also to avoid? Can they really offer anything nowadays? Thanks.
A small press is a press run by usually one person. You can do what any small press can do, if not more, and easily and keep all the money. Plus, when you start your publishing name, you have started a small press. So do it yourself. In other words, there is no reason in book publishing these days to not control it all.
As Dean said, small presses tend to be run by one person. Guess what happens if they get sick? Or suffer from depression? Or develop an addiction? Or screw up *your* taxes?
A passionate publisher can be a lot of fun to work with, but that stops when they stop returning your calls, when you can’t find out when your manuscript will be published, or when your royalty checks seem smaller than they should. All the while they are holding the license to your copyright and (usually) that world and characters that you created. This is extra fun when they’re being sued and your books (and essentially copyrights) are considered assets by the court or the IRS. Say goodbye to being able to do anything else with those for *years.*
You’re totally right. Run by one person or, sometime even worst: a married couple (this is oddly common). I can imagine what can happen with someone’s books if they break up! Actually I know some guys that run a press by themselves (besides a day job) and are clearly overworked, sometimes even running on medication in order to sleep or wake up.
Ugh. Can you imagine getting your books caught up in a split of assets fight?! I guess that since it’s only one or two people, any bad thing that can happen with an agent can happen with a small press. Like someone’s clueless nephew inheriting the publisher!
Thank you, Dean.
You’ve been posted on FB.
Thought I’d warn you.
Posted? Not sure what you mean. I don’t see any links or anything when I go there. Thanks.
Howdy, Dean,
I’m understanding more and more the point you made to me long ago in response to an email I sent you: Paraphrased, you wrote, “If you try to convince writers to abandon the search for an agent and actually BE a writer, you’re spinning your wheels. It’s a complete waste of time.”
I write an (almost) daily Journal in which I talk regularly about putting time in the chair, WITD, cycling, staying away from agents and trad pubs and others who want to insert themselves in your stories, and a variety of other topics.
I also know I’m talking mostly to the choir, but that’s all right. To make the Journal more valuable to them, I also regularly list links to other valid sources of information in an “Of Interest” section. Some even enjoy following my numbers as my characters churn out story after story, mostly novels these days.
Mine is kind of an over-the-back-fence chat with friends, and I enjoy chatting with friends.
As to the others, I have to remind myself they have their own path to walk, their own trips and falls to experience. I hope for them that someday they’ll develop a non-lemming sense of self-worth, get tired of waiting for someone else to validate their existence, and finally veer off the well-trodden path.
A quote from Raymond Chandler: “Most critical writing is drivel and half of it is dishonest. It is a short cut to oblivion, anyway. Thinking in terms of ideas destroys the power to think in terms of emotions and sensations.”
Amen.
Something I’ve been thinking about lately: I notice that there’s an anti-Amazon rhetoric going around, especially towards those who are highly in favor of traditional publishing. And I’m not just talking about legitimate concerns. It’s to the point where they avoid Amazon anything and will tell their followers online to do whatever they can to buy from an indie bookstore. I know you own some indie bookstores and how important they are, but let me tell you, it’s hard to get an indie book sometimes into these types of stores and if you don’t live in a big city, it can be cost prohibitive to buy a book, easily spend $40 on a single book. Do you think this might be a factor in why some go towards traditional publishing?
I doubt it. It’s just a dream for many with nightmare consequences. What makes me sad is that very few survive. If there was a trail for these folks into traditional and then back out in ten years into a healthy writing life, I wouldn’t fight it so hard, but sadly, for all but a few who are lucky or are exceptions, the path into traditional is a one-way-and-dead-end road. But I made it out, so it is possible, and I know of a number of other traditional published writers with indie careers now who have made it out as well. So it is possible to go in there and come out. Possible, but so is winning the lottery. And I feel like I won the lottery by escaping.